Login Login: Skin: Go To Top Lock User Bar
Logo
Betsy's Questions
 
Betsy Bolan
User Avatar

Offline Marker
Reputation: -4
Group:Juror
Posts:430
Joined:Jun 17, 2014
Post #1: 4th Aug 2014 8:53:58 PM 
Hello and congratulations to all three of you!

I'm more undecided with my vote than I was originally anticipating to be, so I thought I would ask you some specific questions about your gameplay or things you have mentioned in this final tribal council so far so I can cast a more informed vote.

There's also one final question at the end for all of you.



Charlie


What amazes me most about your game is that you were hands down the biggest physical threat coming into the merge and arguably one of the biggest overall threats as well. I voiced that in my "Merge Questions" in my confessional right when the merge hit, and I'd be surprised if many of the others didn't do the same.

Despite being one of the biggest threats in the game, how do you think you managed to get to this point? Did your strength in the first half of the game force you to play more conservatively in the second half?



After the Marisa vote, you approached me and mentioned the idea of me continuing to work with old Dadès members. At the time, you mentioned being interested in going to the final three with me and J'Tia, which inevitably got my mind racing and wondering how she held so much control, but that's another story...

Was that alliance offer legitimate? Did you ever truly plan on pursuing that further or were you just trying to pick me up as an extra vote?



I clearly burned a bridge with you in a very significant way during the round where everything went wrong and Bill was eventually voted out. I understood your frustration with me and regretted handling things with you the way that I did. A couple rounds later when my head was on the chopping block, I offered you my complete and total voting allegiance from that point until the finals if necessary.

Did you ever consider working with me during that speed round or were you set on voting me out from the start?



In your opening statement, you mentioned that you never got the opportunity to use your idol like you had fully intended for it to be used. As someone who can directly relate to having those desires, I’m curious to know how you would have ideally used it.

Hypothetically speaking, had Hayden still been voted out in the final 12 but you were able to maintain your idol through that round, how would you have used it in the rounds that followed to change the game? I realize that hindsight is 20/20, but I’d like to hear how you would have used it had you known now what you didn’t know then. How would you have used it to change the game?




Jonathan


It is my understanding that one of your larger moves in the game was being fairly influential in creating an alliance between you, J'Tia, Charlie, and Eddie. That is definitely impressive, but also somewhat bold looking back on it now since those three ended up being arguably three of the strongest players in the game in their own ways.

Did you ever regret aligning yourself with people of such high caliber who arguably dominated the game? Do you think people perceive you as weak simply because of the people you were tied to? Is it fair to say that they were making more/bigger moves?



You told me on multiple occasions that you really wanted to stir things up. You had multiple opportunities to make a big move in the game but never really pursued those options and often went back to the predictable or safe move.

Why did you decide to never do that? What would you say to jurors who think you played a little bit too passively?



In your opening statement, you mentioned your A social game as one of your strengths. Personally, I feel like every single person in this game had a good social game, with maybe a couple of exceptions of people voted out pre-merge. I'm curious to see how you think your social game stacks up in comparison to those you're with in the finals and those of us who are on the jury.

Using the numbers 1-13 rank the social games of the people in the final 3 and all of the jurors in order of whose social game was the strongest (1) to whose was the weakest (13).



Finally, the way you explain how you managed to get everyone to turn on me is extremely impressive and indeed a strong move if it's true. I'm not so sure that I'm sold that it's actually accurate, though. I think you're twisting it a little bit to make yourself look a little better. I recall that round very well and you seemed to be the most indecisive and most paranoid about how to handle the situation. You had approached me twice about voting for Ken and taking out one of the most obvious threats in the game before I ever told you what I was thinking or inviting you to jump on board with the J'Tia vote, so I'm skeptical that your intentions were turning things on me all along. I was told later that J'Tia more or less went off on you and scared you into going back to her side. When I asked you about it the next day, your comment was (and I quote) "I know you've gotta make big moves, and it probably will cost me the game. But that's why I know I'm not cut out for real survivor haha." So, my question is this...

Do you have any further proof that you actually were consciously planning to turn people against me? Can you explain to me in detail the conversations you had with people that did just that or any information from your confessional immediately after the majority rules challenge that prove you were actually going after me? If you really did mean to do that all along, why did you admit to me on multiple occasions that you hadn't made big moves yet? Prove to me that you're not just changing your story to make yourself look better after a chaotic round and tribal council.



Yul


One thing that people have come to realize is that you were extremely social and well-liked by many members of Sebou, but there seemed to be a bit of a disconnect between you and some of the former Dadès members.

Why did you choose not to form such strong relationships with many of them? Any regrets about that?



You always seemed to be able to separate the game from your social life. There were multiple occasions when I talked to you and you explained to me that you were going out with friends or doing something else fun for the evening while all of the rest of us were panicking and trying to rally votes.

Do you think many people invested too much time and effort into the game? Could being overly involved in the game be a flaw? Explain how your laid back demeanor allowed you to get to this point over some people who were a little more desperate to get to where you are now.



You made an exceptionally strong push toward the finals in the last few rounds of the game - winning several immunity challenges, positioning yourself well, and rallying a blindside.

What changed? Why did you come out of nowhere to emerge as one of the strongest players in the last few rounds? Did something happen that changed your mentality? Why did you wait so late?



In your opening statement, you referenced a diagram that suggested your passive yet calculating personality allowed you to be a swing vote and get to where you are now.

How would you respond to someone who says that such a passive game is not worthy of winning it all?







ALL


One last question. There's a reason why all of you are there and we aren't.

Name each juror one by one and explain why they aren't in the finals right now and how/what they could have done better.




Thanks guys! Your answers to these questions will definitely determine who I vote for. Good luck and may the best man win!
 
   
Yul Kwon
User Avatar

Offline Marker
Reputation: 4
Group:Occorom
Posts:519
Joined:Jun 17, 2014
Post #2: 4th Aug 2014 9:39:06 PM 
Hey Betsy, good questions.

Why did you choose not to form such strong relationships with many of them? Any regrets about that?

I did try talk to many Dadès members but I'll be honest, I didn't click with all of them. My conversations with Jonathan were pretty surface level. I tried to talk to Charlie as well but we just didn't make a huge connection. I talked to jtia and I felt like we bonded. Me and hayden bonded on hearthstone but I was wrong in the way I treated his boot. Me and eddie didn't talk much at first but when we got to talking we got along pretty well. If you count peter as a Dadès member, I feel like he was the one I was able to talk to and connect the most on a more personal level. I don't think my bonds with Dadès were nearly as close to my bonds with sebou, but I still tried to talk to everyone.

I didn't want to seem to be getting to close to Dadès as well. When people saw that Marisa and Bill were close to Eddie people started to get suspicious of them and ultimately led to them getting voted out. I wanted Sebou members to know that I was willing to stick with them, mostly because my gameplay focused on working with them going forward.

Do you think many people invested too much time and effort into the game? Could being overly involved in the game be a flaw? Explain how your laid back demeanor allowed you to get to this point over some people who were a little more desperate to get to where you are now.

Absolutely not. I don't want people to think that I was not committed to this game. Every time I was out with my friends I was always on my phone and talking to people via AIM mobile. I didn't have my laptop for at least a week due to me dropping it and the charge cable thing breaking so I had to use my buddy's computers to do challenges. When I was out hanging out with my friends I often did challenges at their houses. Hell, the whole chess game I did with ken was in my friend's basement. I remember they went to Marsh to get soda to make mixed drinks and I had to stay in the basement. I don't want people to think I wasn't committed to the game. Wherever I was, I was always thinking about it.

The less people thought I was doing the better. There were many big personalities in this game and I was content to sit back and let them fight amongst each other while I watch it play out and did what was best for my game. I didn't need to fight for control when my game wasn't on the line.

What changed? Why did you come out of nowhere to emerge as one of the strongest players in the last few rounds? Did something happen that changed your mentality? Why did you wait so late?

Thanks for mentioning that Betsy. My mentality changed when I knew I had to win these immunity challenges. Earlier on, I wasn't worried as much because I had a good idea of how the votes were going to play out. I didn't want to emerge as an immunity threat early in the game and have a target on my back going deep in the game. I wanted to keep the target as small as possible, that was the kind of game I was playing.

How would you respond to someone who says that such a passive game is not worthy of winning it all?

I'd like to reference something I said earlier. Survivor is not a game about voting people out, but a game about not being voted out. Sandra used this strategy in both of her seasons to great success. The most aggressive players this game are sitting in the jury. I knew that my goal this game had to minimize the target on my back, while making sure the bigger threats went before me. I always valued my position in the game. I wanted to make sure that there would never be enough votes to get rid of me. I played my own game, I didn't need someone else to tell me what to do. I made the choices myself that helped me get here. I demonstrated that I had a good physical game through my immunity wins, a good social game through the bonds that I made that let me get here, and a good strategical game due to the reasons I outlined above. I was always thinking this game. This game was on my mind when I woke up and before I went to bed. I hope people can see that I did indeed play the game, even though it may not have been flashy.

Name each juror one by one and explain why they aren't in the finals right now and how/what they could have done better.

Kelly - Probably targeting Charlie instead of me at F5. You were very close to Ken and I know you played with your heart. I think if I went at F4 and ken didn't win immunity at F3 there was a good chance he would go.

Ken - This one is the hardest. I think you had a huge target just because people know how much of a threat you were. I don't know if there's anything you could have done differently really. I'm trying to run through different scenarios and can't think of anything you could have done specifically. Maybe if you tried to work with betsy/jr more? Even then I don't know if that would have put you in a bad position. I feel like you just needed to win the F5 and f4 ICs.

JR- I feel like you were a victim of the Jonathan vote as well. Maybe your best bet was to try to rally votes against Ken during the bill vote. I also feel like if you opened up a little more to people that would have trusted you more as well. The more I talked to you the more you opened up, if you were like that with others I feel like you could have went further.

Betsy - It was honestly the Bill vote that messed up your game. You definitely had a bad read on Jonathan, which led to your downfall. I don't know if it was something you may have said to jtia and she might have told kelly/ken.

jtia - The argument with Betsy really did you in. Drama is never good for someone's game. I try to keep all my options open, unless someone else cuts themselves off from working with me. Sometimes it's hard but you gotta put on your happy face and play along.

Bill - Ah man, I think you just played too hard too early. I definitely think your biggest mistake was trying to play both sides. If you just kept playing along and pretending that you wanted to go Sebou to the end I feel like we could have been two important swing votes going forward.

Eddie - I think you should have talked to Sebou more. I don't know if it's that your allies didn't trust you, but they sure as hell didn't want themselves to go so they had to make a new alliance in order to protect themselves. If you would have presented yourself as an open vote then you might have been able to stay longer, it was hard to see coming though so I can't blame you.

Marisa - Your relationship with eddie is why you left I think. Your vote was the one that caused the least amount of drama. If me/bill left the other would be mad and could flip. If ken/kelly left, the same thing would happen.

Hayden - I feel like you may not have had that tight relationships with other Sebou members. I remember we talked but they were quick to throw your name out. When I know I'm on the bottom I try to talk to the other side as much as I can and present myself as an option and just keep my head down.

Peter- I'll be honest here, I have no idea what happened. I wasn't on outcasts so I couldn't really tell you. Maybe try to deadlock the vote when you were down to 4 people on that tribe and hope that rocks go your way?

Thanks for the questions betsy, they were tough ones. Hope you got the answers you were looking for.

 
   
Jonathan
User Avatar

Offline Marker
Reputation: 2
Group:Occorom
Posts:660
Joined:Jun 17, 2014
Post #3: 4th Aug 2014 11:37:20 PM 
Thanks for your questions, Betsy.

Did you ever regret aligning yourself with people of such high caliber who arguably dominated the game? Do you think people perceive you as weak simply because of the people you were tied to? Is it fair to say that they were making more/bigger moves?

Honestly, no, I never regretted aligning myself with them. For one, I don't think I'm a weak player by any means. Sure I wasn't as bold and out there with the decisions and moves that I made, but that doesn't make me weak. On top of that, being aligned with someone who is seen as making the big moves and getting all of the blood on their hands is never a bad thing, because their name always comes up before yours in a vote. Also, I truly value the relationships I have now with Charlie, J'Tia, and Eddie and I wouldn't have those had we not had that alliance at the beginning. So, no, I have never once regretted aligning myself with those 3. Not, at least, until I had to turn on Eddie and vote for him.

Additionally, I think people can say what they want as far as "big move" go. I've said it once and I'll say it again, big moves do not win the game of Survivor. Sure they are fun and flashy and make the game exciting, but a big move does not always constitute a win, as far a I am concerned. Furthermore, running through the game quickly in my head, I don't recall any of them making extraordinarily successful big moves. Sure, they all played smart, they all had good strategies, and they're all great competitors, but I don't remember any of them shaking things up too much or formulating any major blindsides. So, no, I don't think it's fair for people to consider me weak in comparison or for people to say they made bigger moves than I did.

Why did you decide to never do that? What would you say to jurors who think you played a little bit too passively?

I decided to never to stir things up too much because it never truly benefited my game. If you're going to make a big move, you have to think of the aftermath, and you have to think of what your game will be like moving forward from there. Take for instance your attempted J'Tia takedown. Had I gone along with your plan and stirred the pot and made a big move at that stage, Ken, Kelly, and Charlie, all strong players and all people who trusted me and whom I trusted, would have lost full trust in me and they would have been after me. On the flip side, I would have gained an ally in you, Yul, JR, and Bill, all of which I had less of a connection with besides you. The pros of voting out J'Tia at that stage were FAR outweighed by the cons, and as you know, I had another agenda for that round anyways. But, all of that to say, for those who think I played a passive game, don't forget that one big move doesn't win you the game, but you have to be cognizant of the aftermath, which is FAR more important than any big move you can make in this game.

Using the numbers 1-13 rank the social games of the people in the final 3 and all of the jurors in order of whose social game was the strongest (1) to whose was the weakest (13).

1. Ken
2. Betsy
3. Jonathan
4. J'Tia
5. Kelly
6. Charlie
7. Eddie
8. Marisa
9. Hayden
10. Yul
11. Bill
12. Peter
13. JR

Do you have any further proof that you actually were consciously planning to turn people against me? Can you explain to me in detail the conversations you had with people that did just that or any information from your confessional immediately after the majority rules challenge that prove you were actually going after me? If you really did mean to do that all along, why did you admit to me on multiple occasions that you hadn't made big moves yet? Prove to me that you're not just changing your story to make yourself look better after a chaotic round and tribal council.

If Screenshots were allowed that would make this so much easier. First of all, J'Tia never went off on me and scared me into voting with her. I never intended on voting against J'Tia, and I told her that.

This is an exact quote from me during that round in a conversation between J'Tia and I:

"JR and Betsy are voting you. The only reason they're voting you is because they think they have majority with my vote. I'm voting Bill. When the votes come out, JR and Betsy look like they betrayed our alliance of 6, making them targets over us."

If I didn't seem paranoid, you wouldn't have believed me. And I, honestly, was a little paranoid, because if things didn't go the way I needed them to that round, I could have been found out and taken down. Yes, I had approached you about Ken, because it was safer for me to try to convince you to vote Ken then J'Tia. It wouldn't have made any sense for me to come to you targeting my closest ally. When you flipped the vote on J'Tia, and then blamed Ken/Kelly, it made my life even easier. I instantly told Ken and Kelly that you said they were trying to get the vote onto J'Tia, aiding in my ability in getting them to distrust you, which, again, could be proven if screenshots were allowed. But I sent Kelly chat transcripts of you telling me that her and Ken had instigated the J'Tia vote, etc.

I also found this quote from me in a chat log with Kelly:

"i shouldn't have tried to rock the boat last week and expose betsy. i shoulda just kept it simple"

I kept telling you that I hadn't made any big moves yet for a couple of reasons. One, I hadn't really deemed any move I had made up to that point "big". My moves at the time had included instigating the alliance between me, Eddie, Charlie, and J'Tia and then making sure I had trust and support from Kelly and Ken and hinting at/starting to instigate our 6 person alliance. Secondly, if you make a move at all in this game, there's no sense in waving it in someone's face. Truthfully, it's oftentimes better to be seen as more passive during the game so you're not a target at any of the votes. Of course, that makes this stage of the game a little more difficult, but it got less blood on my hands during the game.

Anyways, I could continue to search through my AIM chat logs for proof that bringing you down was the sole intention of that round for me, but at this point I think I've harped on it and proven it enough. I hope you believe me, but there's only so much I can do without screenshots.

Name each juror one by one and explain why they aren't in the finals right now and how/what they could have done better.

Kelly - I have to agree with Yul on this one. Kelly going after Charlie in the F5 is the biggest reason she isn't sitting here right now. Had she stuck with our Final 4 deal, Ken would have likely been the biggest target at F4, and the Final 3 would have been Charlie, myself, and Kelly.

Ken - Ken's not sitting here in the Final Three because he was a huge threat. He likely would have beaten almost anyone sitting here in the finals. I think it's hard to actually "do" anything to prevent something like that from happening, but Ken could have maybe played a little subtler throughout the game, alleviating the target on his back.

Jean-Robert - I think Jean-Robert acted too little too late, and that's why he sits on the jury. He approached me at Final 6 with a plan, but a plan that would have easily fallen through. I think had he approached folks sooner with a better argument, he might could have swayed people to keep him. Truthfully, I think J'Tia's idol round is ultimately what ended both Betsy and JR on the jury. I feel you both could have been more active in swaying people, rather than sitting idly by waiting on J'tia to get idoled out.

Betsy - I think part of what I just discussed of JR's downfall was also your downfall. Additionally, your desire to make a big move and shake things up turned people against you. I think you tried to make a big move too soon, and had you waited, it might have been more successful.

J'Tia - I think J'Tia is on the jury because, for one, she was definitely a threat in the game. Additionally, J'Tia was very blunt and honest with her feelings, which I think led to her being idoled out and targeted by Betsy. Perhaps surpressing those feelings could have assisted in that.

Bill - For me, the next three are all pretty similar. They're cross-tribal connections were all too well known, and I think it came to bight them in the ass at the end. I think they could have been more subtle about it so people wouldn't have caught on to their relationship so quickly.

Eddie - See Above

Marisa - See Above

Hayden - I always thought Hayden was so hesitant to talk strategy or make any kind of alliance, and come merge I think that was his downfall. Eddie, J'Tia, and I had all worked to make sure that we had relationships with Sebous, and I think Hayden fell short there, which caused him to be an early Dadès boot in the merge.

Peter - Truthfully I think the only thing that could have saved Peter was to fight harder in those tribal immunity challenge. He survived for as long as we could on the Rejects tribe, but I think JR and Betsy were too tight to keep him around that last round.

Again, thanks for you questions Betsy, and I hope this cleared some things up for you. Best of luck wit your decision
Posted Image
   
Charlie Herschel
User Avatar

Offline Marker
Reputation: 0
Group:Occorom
Posts:1,001
Joined:Jun 18, 2014
Post #4: 5th Aug 2014 2:32:51 AM 
Thanks, Betsy, for the congrats!



Despite being one of the biggest threats in the game, how do you think you managed to get to this point? Did your strength in the first half of the game force you to play more conservatively in the second half?

Honestly, no, I don't feel like it forced me to be more conservative than I already was in the second half. I co-won a Sausage Link in round two of the merge that eventually led to Marisa being voted out. I won the Majority Rules challenge to the surprise of even myself. I normally suck at that kind of challenge, which, if you ask me, makes me look pretty aware if I was able to guess a majority of the questions correctly and with point conviction in order to win. I also came close to winning later challenges, and even went off my rocker that same round I won Majority Rules trying to get support to vote out Ken.

Was that alliance offer legitimate? Did you ever truly plan on pursuing that further or were you just trying to pick me up as an extra vote?

At the time I made the offer, no. Because I was bound and determined to go to the end with Eddie and J'Tia. When Eddie was voted out, the trust I had in J'Tia and Jonathan flinched for the first time and I did honestly consider a final three scenario with J'Tia, who was my home girl regardless of her actions, and you because I felt pretty upset with Jonathan. But then you went after J'Tia and that plan went right out the window.

Did you ever consider working with me during that speed round or were you set on voting me out from the start?

I think if you had targeted anyone but J'Tia I might have considered it, but also, and to be completely honest, when she left, I was very unhappy. I felt comfortable in the alliance I had with Jonathan, Kelly and Ken after J'Tia left and we all wanted to vote you out, so we did, and I felt a lot more trust in them than I did you so it didn't cross my mind to work with you.

Hypothetically speaking, had Hayden still been voted out in the final 12 but you were able to maintain your idol through that round, how would you have used it in the rounds that followed to change the game? I realize that hindsight is 20/20, but I’d like to hear how you would have used it had you known now what you didn’t know then. How would you have used it to change the game?

There is a very high chance I would have used it to save Eddie when he was voted out because I knew there was a very high chance he was getting votes. Knowing what I know now, all of the votes would have been cancelled out, and I don't know how Brett and Lex would have handled that situation, but I feel like it would have been a shit storm for us players that would have changed the game, and someone unexpected would have left that round.

Name each juror one by one and explain why they aren't in the finals right now and how/what they could have done better.

Peter - To be honest, I don't know what Peter could have done better because he was outnumbered by you and Jean-Robert. That is the reason he isn't in the finals and unless he could crack you two, I don't think he would have made it.

Hayden - He was the first target of the merge, plain and simple. I want to say if Hayden had been more visible in the first half of the game that he wouldn't have been targeted as possibly the least likely to have an idol used on him, but I don't know.

Marisa - Selfishly, her fatal flaw was getting on my bad side. I, personally, had no intention of voting her out as soon as I did, but she made one wrong comment and I went on a fury. I think if Marisa had kept her statement at tribal council to herself, she would have done better.

Eddie - I feel like Eddie played too hard at the merge and people were starting get turned off by it, myself included. I think if he could have benefited by being, using your words, more conservative.

Bill - Quite a few people, myself included, felt Bill was a snake, and it worked out that the newly formed alliance targeted him because he wasn't trustworthy to us. I feel like if Bill had been more careful with who he chose to talk with and who to sneak around with, it wouldn't have caught up with him like it did.

J'Tia - The Goddess herself was so well liked that it frightened you. I think her fatal flaw was ME because I went to you about a final three deal with her and you panicked. I honestly don't know how she could have played the game better. I felt like she was playing the best game up until you, Jean-Robert and Yul were all immune. If she had tried harder to get the target off of herself and onto me, Jonathan or Kelly she would have made it to the end.

Betsy - You, m'dear, went after the wrong person at the wrong time. I think your paranoia over J'Tia was definitely the reason you left because you lost a lot of potential allies when you did that and only bought yourself a little more time by having a hidden immunity idol. Maybe if you had been more open and not targeted J'Tia things would have been different.

Jean-Robert - I feel like Jean-Robert's social game suffered at the merge. When you left, he had no one else to hide behind and it caught up with him. I think if he had approached more people earlier in the game that he wouldn't have found himself at the bottom.

Ken - Ken's fatal flaw was going after me. Yul decided to tell me about it because he felt Ken and Kelly were the biggest threats going forward and offered me proof that Ken was after me, so it solidified my vote for him to leave rather than going to the final four with him. I think if he hadn't been trying to double deal with Yul, he might have made it to the end.

Kelly - If Kelly had won final immunity she would be sitting in the final three. I feel like that was her only real flaw, and it isn't really a flaw. If she could have convinced Jonathan and Yul to vote for me, she also would have made it here.


Thank you, Betsy, hope this was helpful!
Posted Image
   
Betsy Bolan
User Avatar

Offline Marker
Reputation: -4
Group:Juror
Posts:430
Joined:Jun 17, 2014
Post #5: 5th Aug 2014 8:22:36 AM 
Follow up question, if I may...

Jonathan @ 4/8/2014 22:37
When you flipped the vote on J'Tia, and then blamed Ken/Kelly, it made my life even easier. I instantly told Ken and Kelly that you said they were trying to get the vote onto J'Tia, aiding in my ability in getting them to distrust you, which, again, could be proven if screenshots were allowed. But I sent Kelly chat transcripts of you telling me that her and Ken had instigated the J'Tia vote, etc.



I know you can't screen shot, but what specifically are you talking about here? I never once thought of Ken/Kelly "instigating" that vote because it was something that Bill mentioned first and then JR, myself, and Yul kind of ran with. If I wasn't thinking they were the instigators, I'm not sure what I would have possibly said to you that insinuated that? Can you tell me what part of our conversation you are referring to?
 
   
Jonathan
User Avatar

Offline Marker
Reputation: 2
Group:Occorom
Posts:660
Joined:Jun 17, 2014
Post #6: 5th Aug 2014 8:39:40 AM 
Betsy Bolan @ 5/8/2014 7:22
Follow up question, if I may...

Jonathan @ 4/8/2014 22:37
When you flipped the vote on J'Tia, and then blamed Ken/Kelly, it made my life even easier. I instantly told Ken and Kelly that you said they were trying to get the vote onto J'Tia, aiding in my ability in getting them to distrust you, which, again, could be proven if screenshots were allowed. But I sent Kelly chat transcripts of you telling me that her and Ken had instigated the J'Tia vote, etc.



I know you can't screen shot, but what specifically are you talking about here? I never once thought of Ken/Kelly "instigating" that vote because it was something that Bill mentioned first and then JR, myself, and Yul kind of ran with. If I wasn't thinking they were the instigators, I'm not sure what I would have possibly said to you that insinuated that? Can you tell me what part of our conversation you are referring to?


Sure!

Here is what you said to me that round, and this is the first I had heard of the vote switching to J'Tia:

Betsy Bolan
The problem now is that Ken and maybe Kelly are starting to suddenly act interested in voting J'Tia
I can't decide if that's legitimate or not

Whether that means they instigated it or not, it was enough proof for me to send to Kelly and tell Ken about to get them to believe that you were throwing their names out there.

Posted Image
   
Betsy Bolan
User Avatar

Offline Marker
Reputation: -4
Group:Juror
Posts:430
Joined:Jun 17, 2014
Post #7: 5th Aug 2014 12:30:11 PM 
Jonathan @ 5/8/2014 7:39
Betsy Bolan @ 5/8/2014 7:22
Follow up question, if I may...

Jonathan @ 4/8/2014 22:37
When you flipped the vote on J'Tia, and then blamed Ken/Kelly, it made my life even easier. I instantly told Ken and Kelly that you said they were trying to get the vote onto J'Tia, aiding in my ability in getting them to distrust you, which, again, could be proven if screenshots were allowed. But I sent Kelly chat transcripts of you telling me that her and Ken had instigated the J'Tia vote, etc.



I know you can't screen shot, but what specifically are you talking about here? I never once thought of Ken/Kelly "instigating" that vote because it was something that Bill mentioned first and then JR, myself, and Yul kind of ran with. If I wasn't thinking they were the instigators, I'm not sure what I would have possibly said to you that insinuated that? Can you tell me what part of our conversation you are referring to?


Sure!

Here is what you said to me that round, and this is the first I had heard of the vote switching to J'Tia:

Betsy Bolan
The problem now is that Ken and maybe Kelly are starting to suddenly act interested in voting J'Tia
I can't decide if that's legitimate or not

Whether that means they instigated it or not, it was enough proof for me to send to Kelly and tell Ken about to get them to believe that you were throwing their names out there.



Yeah, you took that completely out of context, and I think you know you did. We had been discussing the idea of voting for either Ken or J'Tia because you had been pretty adamant about wanting to take out one of the larger threats. I had explained to you that Bill, JR, Yul, and myself were already on board with the plan to vote out J'Tia and that your vote would give us the majority. You agreed. But then I had been discussing it with Ken privately, and he said that he didn't want to strong arm me into voting Bill so he was considering voting for J'Tia after all. I simply told you that line above out of respect for you so that you didn't have to vote against your ally unnecessarily and look like you were backstabbing her if we already had six votes. So, to tell them that I threw them under the bus and made it sound like they instigated it all is really interesting to me.




Thanks to all three of you for your answers! I appreciate all of the info.
 
   
Betsy Bolan
User Avatar

Offline Marker
Reputation: -4
Group:Juror
Posts:430
Joined:Jun 17, 2014
Post #8: 5th Aug 2014 12:42:39 PM 
Jonathan @ 5/8/2014 7:39
Here is what you said to me that round, and this is the first I had heard of the vote switching to J'Tia:



P.S. That's a lie. That's not the first you had heard of it.


I just went back and re-read the conversation. At 6:43 that night, I asked you if you would be on board with voting for J'Tia, and you said you had considered it. I explained to you that there were more people already on board with that plan and that it would be easier to pull off than trying to switch things to Ken.

At 7:15, you explained to me that J'Tia told you that she had heard her name come up and was asking you about it.

At 7:19, I told you the quote above about Ken and Kelly potentially being on board. Your entire tone had changed from "let's do this" to "oh shit" after J'Tia started talking to you about it. So, I told you that it was feasible that we might already have enough votes anyway and you could just vote with her to keep from looking like an asshole. Just a few minutes later, I came back to you and explained that they were both indeed voting for Bill after all.




You crafted this entire final tribal council to make it look like you expertly crafted everyone to turn against me that round, but I think that round was a better example of me playing overly aggressive and you being completely and totally out of control and indecisive.
 
   
Jonathan
User Avatar

Offline Marker
Reputation: 2
Group:Occorom
Posts:660
Joined:Jun 17, 2014
Post #9: 5th Aug 2014 1:25:40 PM 
Betsy Bolan @ 5/8/2014 11:42
Jonathan @ 5/8/2014 7:39
Here is what you said to me that round, and this is the first I had heard of the vote switching to J'Tia:



P.S. That's a lie. That's not the first you had heard of it.


I just went back and re-read the conversation. At 6:43 that night, I asked you if you would be on board with voting for J'Tia, and you said you had considered it. I explained to you that there were more people already on board with that plan and that it would be easier to pull off than trying to switch things to Ken.

At 7:15, you explained to me that J'Tia told you that she had heard her name come up and was asking you about it.

At 7:19, I told you the quote above about Ken and Kelly potentially being on board. Your entire tone had changed from "let's do this" to "oh shit" after J'Tia started talking to you about it. So, I told you that it was feasible that we might already have enough votes anyway and you could just vote with her to keep from looking like an asshole. Just a few minutes later, I came back to you and explained that they were both indeed voting for Bill after all.




You crafted this entire final tribal council to make it look like you expertly crafted everyone to turn against me that round, but I think that round was a better example of me playing overly aggressive and you being completely and totally out of control and indecisive.


Betsy, Betsy, Betsy. If we're getting technical here, when you threw J'Tia's name out at 6:43, you said she wouldn't be the target that round, but in a near future round. So before calling me a liar, please check your facts completely. After I told you it had crossed my mind, you said:

"We wouldn't today. But Yul and Bill are already planning on doing that. So it would take less work and less convincing."

"I think Charlie would understand more next round"

Therefore, when you told me that Ken and Kelly were tossing around the idea of voting J'Tia THAT ROUND, that was truly the first time that I had heard of it from anyone other than J'Tia. Regardless, I never had any intentions of voting for J'Tia that round, and I knew that from the beginning. I was never out of control. And regardless of when you told me that Kelly and Ken had thought about voting J'Tia, you still said it, and I still used it against you. Yes, I was paranoid, because it was a terrifying round. Anything could have happened. Luckily, it happened the way I wanted it to and you ended up as public enemy number one. You are free to believe what you want, but include the whole story if you're going to call me a liar.
Posted Image
   
Betsy Bolan
User Avatar

Offline Marker
Reputation: -4
Group:Juror
Posts:430
Joined:Jun 17, 2014
Post #10: 5th Aug 2014 1:41:42 PM 
Jonathan @ 5/8/2014 12:25
Betsy Bolan @ 5/8/2014 11:42
Jonathan @ 5/8/2014 7:39
Here is what you said to me that round, and this is the first I had heard of the vote switching to J'Tia:



P.S. That's a lie. That's not the first you had heard of it.


I just went back and re-read the conversation. At 6:43 that night, I asked you if you would be on board with voting for J'Tia, and you said you had considered it. I explained to you that there were more people already on board with that plan and that it would be easier to pull off than trying to switch things to Ken.

At 7:15, you explained to me that J'Tia told you that she had heard her name come up and was asking you about it.

At 7:19, I told you the quote above about Ken and Kelly potentially being on board. Your entire tone had changed from "let's do this" to "oh shit" after J'Tia started talking to you about it. So, I told you that it was feasible that we might already have enough votes anyway and you could just vote with her to keep from looking like an asshole. Just a few minutes later, I came back to you and explained that they were both indeed voting for Bill after all.




You crafted this entire final tribal council to make it look like you expertly crafted everyone to turn against me that round, but I think that round was a better example of me playing overly aggressive and you being completely and totally out of control and indecisive.


Betsy, Betsy, Betsy. If we're getting technical here, when you threw J'Tia's name out at 6:43, you said she wouldn't be the target that round, but in a near future round. So before calling me a liar, please check your facts completely. After I told you it had crossed my mind, you said:

"We wouldn't today. But Yul and Bill are already planning on doing that. So it would take less work and less convincing."

"I think Charlie would understand more next round"

Therefore, when you told me that Ken and Kelly were tossing around the idea of voting J'Tia THAT ROUND, that was truly the first time that I had heard of it from anyone other than J'Tia. Regardless, I never had any intentions of voting for J'Tia that round, and I knew that from the beginning. I was never out of control. And regardless of when you told me that Kelly and Ken had thought about voting J'Tia, you still said it, and I still used it against you. Yes, I was paranoid, because it was a terrifying round. Anything could have happened. Luckily, it happened the way I wanted it to and you ended up as public enemy number one. You are free to believe what you want, but include the whole story if you're going to call me a liar.



Jonathan, Jonathan, Jonathan. You're changing the story to fit your agenda again.

We were talking about how Charlie would not be on board or happy with that plan, but that he would understand more in the future. I had specifically told you that Bill, Yul, myself, and JR were all potential votes for J'Tia and that you could be too. You had mentioned twice already how strong Ken and J'Tia were and how they needed to be watched going forward. You knew the votes were there, and I explained to you that Ken and maybe Kelly could be used to keep you from looking like the bad guy. Truthfully, it was dumb on my part to ever realistically ask you to vote for J'Tia, but you had asked me if I would be able to cover for you afterwards if you followed through with it. Whether you want to admit it or not, you were on the fence that round and very unsure about how you should handle the situation.

Listen, if you were confused and unsure of how to act, that's perfectly fine. But own it.

Don't sit there and say that it was your agenda to make me "public enemy number one" after the results were posted and you realized how trustworthy I was, when in reality you were all over the place with that vote. Own it and tell us that things went crazy, but that you ended up benefitting from it in the long run by trying to push the attention on me later and off of yourself.

Don't try to act like me telling you that Ken and Kelly potentially being able to come on board as fifth and sixth votes was the first that you had ever heard of J'Tia being voted out, when we both know that you were fully aware that her name was on the chopping block. While it may have been a decision at one point as to whether it would be best to do it then or later, you still knew her name (and Ken's) had been mentioned that round and that at least some were interested in going forward with the plan of voting for J'Tia.

Stop acting like you orchestrated some brilliant move. Just say that things went crazy at times but that you always made the most of every situation and found a way to survive it. I think people would respect that a lot more than trying to convince us all that you did something that you really didn't.

There's a disconnect between what you're saying happened and what actually happened. I wish you'd just own your game.


I'm done. Good luck to all three of you!
 
   
Jonathan
User Avatar

Offline Marker
Reputation: 2
Group:Occorom
Posts:660
Joined:Jun 17, 2014
Post #11: 5th Aug 2014 1:56:20 PM 
Betsy Bolan @ 5/8/2014 12:41
Jonathan @ 5/8/2014 12:25
Betsy Bolan @ 5/8/2014 11:42
Jonathan @ 5/8/2014 7:39
Here is what you said to me that round, and this is the first I had heard of the vote switching to J'Tia:



P.S. That's a lie. That's not the first you had heard of it.


I just went back and re-read the conversation. At 6:43 that night, I asked you if you would be on board with voting for J'Tia, and you said you had considered it. I explained to you that there were more people already on board with that plan and that it would be easier to pull off than trying to switch things to Ken.

At 7:15, you explained to me that J'Tia told you that she had heard her name come up and was asking you about it.

At 7:19, I told you the quote above about Ken and Kelly potentially being on board. Your entire tone had changed from "let's do this" to "oh shit" after J'Tia started talking to you about it. So, I told you that it was feasible that we might already have enough votes anyway and you could just vote with her to keep from looking like an asshole. Just a few minutes later, I came back to you and explained that they were both indeed voting for Bill after all.




You crafted this entire final tribal council to make it look like you expertly crafted everyone to turn against me that round, but I think that round was a better example of me playing overly aggressive and you being completely and totally out of control and indecisive.


Betsy, Betsy, Betsy. If we're getting technical here, when you threw J'Tia's name out at 6:43, you said she wouldn't be the target that round, but in a near future round. So before calling me a liar, please check your facts completely. After I told you it had crossed my mind, you said:

"We wouldn't today. But Yul and Bill are already planning on doing that. So it would take less work and less convincing."

"I think Charlie would understand more next round"

Therefore, when you told me that Ken and Kelly were tossing around the idea of voting J'Tia THAT ROUND, that was truly the first time that I had heard of it from anyone other than J'Tia. Regardless, I never had any intentions of voting for J'Tia that round, and I knew that from the beginning. I was never out of control. And regardless of when you told me that Kelly and Ken had thought about voting J'Tia, you still said it, and I still used it against you. Yes, I was paranoid, because it was a terrifying round. Anything could have happened. Luckily, it happened the way I wanted it to and you ended up as public enemy number one. You are free to believe what you want, but include the whole story if you're going to call me a liar.



Jonathan, Jonathan, Jonathan. You're changing the story to fit your agenda again.

We were talking about how Charlie would not be on board or happy with that plan, but that he would understand more in the future. I had specifically told you that Bill, Yul, myself, and JR were all potential votes for J'Tia and that you could be too. You had mentioned twice already how strong Ken and J'Tia were and how they needed to be watched going forward. You knew the votes were there, and I explained to you that Ken and maybe Kelly could be used to keep you from looking like the bad guy. Truthfully, it was dumb on my part to ever realistically ask you to vote for J'Tia, but you had asked me if I would be able to cover for you afterwards if you followed through with it. Whether you want to admit it or not, you were on the fence that round and very unsure about how you should handle the situation.

Listen, if you were confused and unsure of how to act, that's perfectly fine. But own it.

Don't sit there and say that it was your agenda to make me "public enemy number one" after the results were posted and you realized how trustworthy I was, when in reality you were all over the place with that vote. Own it and tell us that things went crazy, but that you ended up benefitting from it in the long run by trying to push the attention on me later and off of yourself.

Don't try to act like me telling you that Ken and Kelly potentially being able to come on board as fifth and sixth votes was the first that you had ever heard of J'Tia being voted out, when we both know that you were fully aware that her name was on the chopping block. While it may have been a decision at one point as to whether it would be best to do it then or later, you still knew her name (and Ken's) had been mentioned that round and that at least some were interested in going forward with the plan of voting for J'Tia.

Stop acting like you orchestrated some brilliant move. Just say that things went crazy at times but that you always made the most of every situation and found a way to survive it. I think people would respect that a lot more than trying to convince us all that you did something that you really didn't.

There's a disconnect between what you're saying happened and what actually happened. I wish you'd just own your game.


I'm done. Good luck to all three of you!



Regardless of what you think I did and what you think my intentions were, Bill went home, and you became the biggest target. I got what I wanted, and that's that.

But best of luck in your decision though.

Post Edited by Jonathan @ 5th Aug 2014 1:56:45 PM
Posted Image
   
1 Users Viewing (1 Guests)
  Final Tribal Council  
 
Hosted by N-Dimension Forums.
Create your own free forum today

Mobile Version | Mobile Settings | Report this Forum | Terms of Service